Curse

Tyla · Apr 23, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Berserkers Stance is horrible, because it doesn't let you keep the IAS through the skill.
Tiger Stance has a horrible ending side-effect and isn't 100% upkeep.

Terrokian · Apr 24, 2008, 12:35 AM // 00:35

PvE=[build=Warrior;OQARE5xweV4rAAAAAAAAAA]
Basically start any attack run with those 3 in that order.Period.The reason Flail is no good for PvP is notice the MOVE 33% SLOWER.Slow in PvP=DEATH.In PvE it is meaningless.

ogre_jd · Apr 24, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Berserkers Stance is horrible, because it doesn't let you keep the IAS through the skill.
Tiger Stance has a horrible ending side-effect and isn't 100% upkeep.

[[Berserker Stance] is good for building up adrenaline without worrying about massive damage to yourself. I prefer to go W/R, though, and pump Beast Mastery for [[Tiger's Fury]. As long as it's the last skill I use before charging in, its disadvantage isn't so bad.

Powerful White Man · Apr 24, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

15 now, actually. For certain split/solo warriors, Sprint's a stronger choice (and it can be pretty lame stuck in Frenzy after [[final thrust])

As for the bows thing... never seen bows. Furious spears, however, are used occasionally.

Bows are used to build adren vs zaishen in HA runs.

Frenzy = 50% damage increase, 50% more adrenaline, 100% more damage received
Rush = cancel stance for Frenzy, so the 100% more damage received can't be exploited by enemies.

Arkantos · Apr 24, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

[[Berserker Stance] is good for building up adrenaline without worrying about massive damage to yourself. I prefer to go W/R, though, and pump Beast Mastery for [[Tiger's Fury]. As long as it's the last skill I use before charging in, its disadvantage isn't so bad.

Berserker stance also wastes a skill slot on an already tight bar.

Tiger's fury is also horrible. 10 energy, disables all non attack skills, 25% IAS, needs 12 beast mastery to be kept up indefinitely. You're better off with flurry and a zealous weapon.

Stormlord Alex · Apr 24, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Berserker Stance is a horrible skill. You can't spike with it, so it's only use is for building adrenaline - which makes it worse than "FGJ!" because you can run a decent IAS with it as well.

Berserker is a horrible, horrible skill that should never really be used... ever.

Tyla · Apr 24, 2008, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

[[Berserker Stance] is good for building up adrenaline without worrying about massive damage to yourself. I prefer to go W/R, though, and pump Beast Mastery for [[Tiger's Fury]. As long as it's the last skill I use before charging in, its disadvantage isn't so bad.

And what about Flail?
Go in with Enraging Charge, pop Flail up, gg.

Berserker's Stance is horrible. Not 100% upkeep, can't be used with attack skills. (Deja Vu)

Crom The Pale · Apr 25, 2008, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Personally the only down side to [tiger stance] is the recharge. I generally know what targets have blocking in PvE so I can avoid them. If they block then it doesnt matter what IAS your using. Since I rarely every carry [wild blow] or enchant removal I tend to pick targets I know cant block, or that I can interupt thier blocking skill.

For me I get the 33% IAS up instantly when I need it, no need to build adren, the down side is with a 10sec duration and 20 sec recharge it might not be there every time I want it.

On the flip side if I run [Enraging charge] and [Flail], if the target blocks or dies and I need to move after another target I have to have a 3rd skill(cancel stance) or wait for Enraging Charge to be availible.

itsvictor · Apr 25, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Tiger Stance's recharge is way too long, you can't keep it up indefinitely. Berserker is bad for the reasons already mentioned. Frenzy's benefits on a "good" warrior by far outweigh the cons of double damage. And you need spirit bond/prot spirit/frenzy, just so much easier to run flail in pve since monsters don't kite that often

JoeKnowMo · Apr 25, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

So [flurry] in RA and AB is the consensus then?

Food · Apr 25, 2008, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

So [flurry] in RA and AB is the consensus then?

NO.

Flurry is also among the worst IAS's out there for warriors. Ever. Flurry gives you a 25% IAS, but decreases your DPS by 25% and the duration is also almost 40% less than Frenzy.

Basically, Flurry doesn't increase your DPS and eats up energy faster than you can say, "Fail".

Arkantos · Apr 25, 2008, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Food

NO.

Flurry is also among the worst IAS's out there for warriors. Ever. Flurry gives you a 25% IAS, but decreases your DPS by 25% and the duration is also almost 40% less than Frenzy.

Basically, Flurry doesn't increase your DPS and eats up energy faster than you can say, "Fail".

Flurry still increases your warriors auto attacking DPS. It also doesn't effect attack skills. It's not the best, but certainly not the worst.

Crom The Pale · Apr 26, 2008, 02:40 AM // 02:40

[Flurry] is basically only for building up adrenline. Combined with a zealous mod you can keep it up as long as needed and it ends quickly enough that once the adren is build you can let it end then spike and reactivate it to rebuild adren.

Chthon · Apr 26, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

[Flurry] is basically only for building up adrenline.

I've seen assassins use it to unleash a wtfpwn instagib... but those are assassins.

shru · Apr 26, 2008, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

[Flurry] is basically only for building up adrenline. Combined with a zealous mod you can keep it up as long as needed and it ends quickly enough that once the adren is build you can let it end then spike and reactivate it to rebuild adren.

If you're not going to use your IAS for your spike...idk what to say. [flurry] is basically only for [illusionary weaponry] builds, and you shouldn't confuse it as being useful anywhere else.
In this game, damage is everything, I'm not sure why you'd want to sacrifice a potential 40% damage increase just to save one skill slot, inless that one skill is going to somehow cover that bonus damage....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I've seen assassins use it to unleash a wtfpwn instagib... but those are assassins.

Sins shouldn't use it either, it's still gimping their chain over a skill like [tiger stance], even if it's just the base dagger damage, thats still damage that you're essentially cheating yourself out of.

zling · Apr 26, 2008, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Personally the only down side to [tiger stance] is the recharge. I generally know what targets have blocking in PvE so I can avoid them. If they block then it doesnt matter what IAS your using. Since I rarely every carry [wild blow] or enchant removal I tend to pick targets I know cant block, or that I can interupt thier blocking skill.

For me I get the 33% IAS up instantly when I need it, no need to build adren, the down side is with a 10sec duration and 20 sec recharge it might not be there every time I want it.

On the flip side if I run [Enraging charge] and [Flail], if the target blocks or dies and I need to move after another target I have to have a 3rd skill(cancel stance) or wait for Enraging Charge to be availible.

ummm... you gotta be kidding me. yes target switching is good, but when you run into Aegis, Defensive Anthem, Ward vs Melee, etc than a lot of targets will have block. you also forgot blind and miss hexes(price of failure, blurred vision, etc)
using Flail on anything but a Hammer is suicide, you'll get stuck in your own snare unable to hit anything. the only reason it's used with Hammers is because Flail is always followed by a knockdown, and as you know you cant kite when you're sitting on your butt. also on a regular Sword/Axe bar the extra skill slot used for a double speed boost stance is 1 skill wasted on an already tight bar. Hammer bars are less tight than Sword/Axe bars which is why you can fit 3 stances in the first place. and without the 2nd cancel stance Flail is really FAIL.

Pyro maniac · Apr 26, 2008, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

Sins shouldn't use it either, it's still gimping their chain over a skill like [tiger stance], even if it's just the base dagger damage, thats still damage that you're essentially cheating yourself out of.

Depends on their combo. Flurry has got 100% upkeep, TS 25%. A SA sin can repeat their combo constantly, Flurry seems to be a better choice then. For a Shadow Prison sin with a attack combo recharge of 15 seconds, Tiger's stance is better.

Age · Apr 26, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

You could use frenzy in PvE as long as you are care full with it and use sprint as your cancel stance.You can cancel flail by using enraging charge or sprint.

I use frenzy in PvE at times but for the most part it is flail.When in RA I will use either rush or sprint along with frenzy.You want to watch out for the big red numbers coming up from the damage that you are taking and when they get big it is time to cancel it out I hope that explains the use better.

Red Sand · Apr 26, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You could use frenzy in PvE as long as you are care full with it and use sprint as your cancel stance.

QFT

The general idea here is, if you ping your build, and you have Frenzy in it, but you don't have Rush or Sprint, they will think you are an idiot. People like Rush better because once you charge it, it's available and recharging quickly while you Frenzy. That's good.

If you cancel with Sprint, and Frenzy again, you can be stuck waiting for Sprint to recharge. That's bad, so be careful. I use Sprint as a cancel stance in a few builds, because I like my movement bonus available at all times.

The only restriction on using Frenzy in PvE is DON'T USE IT WHEN YOU ARE GETTING HIT. But when the mob is beating on your monk, you might wanna kick it up a notch.

And tell the monk to kite.

ogre_jd · Apr 26, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Probably the only time I'd willingly use [[Frenzy] these days, in PvE since I don't PvP, would be with an R/W - probably with [[Lightning Reflexes] or [[Dryder's Defenses], depending if I've split into Wilderness Survival, for occasional use when something gets close (yeah, I know, redundancy is bad, but in this case I'd be looking at LR as a blocking Stance since it can't be kept up constantly for decent IAS).